season 3, episode 15

Episode: 75

Welcome to Musicians Tip Jar where we talk about musicians and money. We believe all musicians have an endorsement match waiting out there for them. I’m Chris Webb, joined by my co-host and the guy who fits better here than the Dali Lama and Doritos, the Chip-Monk himself, Dave Tamkin.

Today, we get to chat with our guests. So start talking about politics, culture, and music, strengthening your message as an artist, and the easiest way to get the skills needed for your career.

Quote of the week

“Endorsements and sponsorships are basically an exchange.  They’re not going to give you free products or discounts if you have nothing to offer them”. - Zoë Moff

After attending Berklee College of Music, Zoe studied recording arts and music business with a focus on bass performance at the University of Colorado Denver. Originally from Bs. As, Argentina, she has been a composer, bass player, and session musician for numerous groups around the world. Some of her best highlights include having original music in advertisements, producing and managing artists featured in more than 600 playlists on Spotify, and playing with Cous at Red Rocks Amphitheater in October 2022. All this and more by the age of 21.

Non-profit of the week

The Hungry for Music story began in 1992, when founder and director Jeff Campbell organized a street musician concert to benefit the homeless. Within three years, he formed a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization, dedicated to expanding opportunities in music for children.

Since then, Hungry for Music has placed more than 20,000 instruments in the hands of aspiring musicians. Children whose trajectory has been altered by the uplifting and life-changing gift of music.

They have delivered everything from guitars and trombones to violins and xylophones to kids in 50 states and 32 countries.

They collect and redistribute more than 1,000 instruments annually, and, in our 29-year journey, they’ve  become a full-time force for good in the musical community. Learn more at https://hungryformusic.org/

Chris Webb

So yes, we are diving into endorsements today and our guests Oh him off gives her tips on how it worked for her. She is a recording engineer, bassist and recent grad at the University of Colorado Denver. She is such an inspiration as she shares her story which started with performing as a young teen in Buenos Aires, Argentina, and then led to performing to a sold out crowd at the iconic Red Rocks Amphitheater.

Chris Webb

Seen on your website, all the endorsements that you've you've conjured up, you've collected and I think we've gotten a lot of questions from some listeners about how to go about approaching Oh Yang endorsements. Maybe you could give us some insight on how that's worked for you.

Zoe Nassimoff

For sure. Yeah. So you know, I feel like endorsements and sponsorships vary between brands and between what you're looking for as a musician and what type of musician you are for the brand. Right? The way I approach it, the the sponsors and endorsements I have right now was through these conferences I attended mainly my first NAMM show bugging 2021, I just straight up one, two different brands and just put a smile on my face, introduce myself, the little, you know, small talk. And that was the first day and then I will come back the second day and kind of do the same thing to like other email. And I would be like, hey, like, this is me, this is you know, I'm a bassist. I do this and that this is my my gig in style. And you know, anything I do for my career professionally. So I would do that in person. And then like a week after the conference, I will email them again and be like, Hey, I would love to talk to your sponsorship team. Zoey, we met at the NAMM show, right. So that was the way I approached this. I feel many brands need to it's just better for them to see you in person and hear yourself as a person. But if not just Googling the brand you're interested in, you know, going to a website going to their Instagram and understanding the way their endorsements work. You can do that just by looking at their posts, right nowadays, if that brand works for you, if you've used a brand that's also important, right?

If you have something to say about the brand, and you know how they work and you think it'd be a good fit, just finding their email and emailing them. Just make sure you send any PK write the electronic press kit to make sure introduce yourself and give them from a way and make sure you You say why are you interested in the brand? Why are you going to do for them right? And what products are you going to use because you know endorsements and sponsorships are basically an exchange right? So they're not going to give you free products or they're going to not going to give you a discount if you have nothing to offer to them. So the way I manage that, through different brands was by showing them, for example, the social media reach I have with a target audience in Denver, right? So I have, like, I kept bringing my studies, like, you know, my results of like my social media reach and everything through through and regions and different age groups. So I send them down, I'm like, Hey, so you know, people age 17 through 24. And based in Denver, I have arranged over 3000 of them. And they're all musicians, right? I'm sure they will all be stoked on your straps, if I can give them a discount, right. So you know, just phased out, phrase that in a very way, but that's kind of how most of my sponsorship started just by getting their products, just doing unboxing videos and using them and posting about them a lot. And then just getting a discount. So if crease for example, your you see my strap on stage, and you're like, wow, that's look super comfy. Like, where do you get it from? And I'm just like, yeah, frankly, straps. It's when they work with me, if you use the code, Zoey 20, you get a 20% off?

Chris Webb

Yeah, obviously, it's working. How many? How many endorsements at this point, are you

Zoe Nassimoff

I actually just started working with Stringjoy, the brand, the string brand. They're great. They're working on their flat one, series two. So I'm excited about that for bass. So I'm working with string joy, and Franklin and Anthony spot on song. And right now I'm actually starting to work with double A billboards, so that you currently have six of them, or seven in the roster. That is excellent. It is also I do want to highlight that it's a lot of keeping up with the companies. Absolutely. I actually had a conversation with one of the brand managers a couple of weeks ago, and he was telling me how you know, many artists just go for the free product, and then do nothing about it disappear. Just not good. Was an artisan for yourself, just as a professional. Just don't do that. Make sure that if you're gonna work as an endorser, or just have a sponsor, just make sure that you put in the work, because that tells you know, that says about us version and superficial.

Chris Webb

Let's talk a little bit about what's worked for you. You know, we always sort of focus a little bit about how important it is to be intentional financially, right? Obviously, that's really our focus here. But at the same time, it's about being happy. That's everybody that I think is listening to the show is trying to always find ways to increase the odds that what they get to do is what they want. Right? So let's talk about what's worked for you so far. And, and what where you're putting your focus financially, as you grow in your business and your brand.

Zoe Nassimoff

I feel like what has worked for me so far, I started out in 2020 2019 and 2020, just having kind of like part time jobs started doing a lot of unmeaning social media work three years, I did that. And you know, just having a part time job that was stable, and then gigging,

Chris Webb

and it was part time jobs were almost always in the music industry to where they not, yes,

Zoe Nassimoff

yeah. So the only one that it was known in the music industry was this. This guy had, there was a couple of hours a week, or just doing the social media scheduling and email blasts and, you know, just kind of community manager role. That was the only one that was not in the music industry. But I was lucky enough to, you know, to get positions in the industry, I worked as a live sound engineer still do. That was my main income at the time. It's not right now. But I worked at dassel, a well known jazz club in Denver, and then other kind of dive bars and broad bars in the city to and, you know, I feel like live sound throughout the years was my main income. But actually, when after COVID hit, and when things started to ramp up again, I feel like my career as a performer ramped up to, I feel like one of the reasons is because I spent way too much time on my instrument during COVID. So I just got better, I just, you know, there was nothing to do. So I was learning logic, learning how to further use and learning my instrument base, because I never answered your question before, but I was not a bass player. I started playing guitar and I switched to bass when I was 16 for these fun fusion band, because we needed a bass player. So So yeah, I feel like during COVID I started, you know, actually getting to play and practice bass more. And after COVID My main income, you know, has been just just performing live in gueguen, which is absolutely incredible. Yeah,

Chris Webb

when COVID hit I think so many musicians really looked around and were like, well, what am I going to do now because we we love it so much performing and it was so hard to give that part of us up for so long. And the fear that it was ever going to come back was was so intense too early. Yeah. Do you find that you prefer the base now or like You can be honest with me like, Oh, what, where are you at with all that?

Zoe Nassimoff

I totally, I definitely prefer the bass. I feel like it's just such a cool instrument, you know, and there's something about just feeling it on your chest, you know, spilling the, you know, the low frequencies on your chest. That says a lot to me. But I'm not gonna lie, my first guitar that I still own. It's like, the love of my life, you know. I still play like guitar every day and actually play guitar a lot on my own. I don't like practice it for gigs, because I really don't play live anymore. But you know, the guitar definitely gets me more on my fields than the bass. But for gigging and for live performance purposes, and, you know, my professional career, I love bass as a way to go,

Chris Webb

Yeah, well, and you're very good at it. It's such an important foundational part of any successful band. Without that, it's I mean, people don't realize what a bad bass player does to any band. It's so important when when you find a bass player who also has so many other skills, like you have to round out their understanding of everything that's happening. We recently were interviewing someone talking about his brother is a professor over at Berkeley, and we kind of were debating, you know, what value having a degree in this business creates. And so maybe just let's just spend a few minutes now that you're a recent grad, talking about what you think were some of the most valuable things you got studying this craft at a university, I would

Zoe Nassimoff

say that the main value I got from school was the community and the network, for sure. I feel like school is an institution and college for music, it just gives you that network of, you know, professionals and musicians, kind of going the same route you are, and hopefully seeing the same outcomes and goals that you are, in, at least for me, college gave me that the first entrance and, you know, to the, to the music industry in Denver, right, for example, you know, my my freshman year, that's where I met, you know, many of my friends, and I did make a point of just, you know, relating to the teachers and the professors, because at the end of the day, you know, you guys are the ones who are actually in the industry, and we're kind of learning from your experience, apart from just the subject you're teaching, right. So I would say, the networking community, for sure. And then I would just say that the technical skills for me, that was that was the main thing. You know, having a Recording Arts degree, I feel like having access to, as you mentioned, the core the recording studios, at CU Denver, that's invaluable, you know, like, there's really no no value for that of just as a student, wherever you are, in your career, and in your engineering, you know, expertise, just being able to get into a studio every single day of the year, if you really want to, and learning and, you know, asking people how to work this, how to work that, and just experimenting, I feel like there's really no value to that, that's just incredible. So just having access to that, to me was, was one of the most valuable things off music school, because you know, in the world right now, like just, you know, going to a recording studio, it's pricey, right? As we know, and hire an engineer, it's also pricey, and all of that. So just being able to have a space to learn and to, you know, practice your craft. That was that was really, really valuable.

Chris Webb

You bring up an interesting point, too, that it is true that when you're in the industry, when you're just learning Hard Knocks style, which we still do, right as students of universities, but there's something different about being in an atmosphere where it's not only okay, but it's encouraged to, to ask questions to show vulnerability to be accepting that you are still a beginner or you're somewhere you're somewhere in the stages where you don't know something. And it's harder to ask those questions and to admit those weaknesses, if you call them weaknesses in the in the real, you know, in the real world in the moment when you're doing stuff. So yeah, I mean, I love all that. And I think you're the perfect example of someone who's taken advantage of those opportunities and those connections and You've nurtured those relationships. One of those things that that kind of led to let's talk a little about when you played Red Rocks, how did that come about? I mean, a lot of people is like, that's the pinnacle, you know, before you before graduation, you've already checked that one off. So that's it. Yes. Hear how that happened. That experience

Zoe Nassimoff

came actually through Instagram. I do gotta say that I do put a lot of effort and work into my social media presence and just, you know, my online presence, my website and all the other platforms because ironically, that's where I get most of the workflow. In this case. It was it was like June last year 20 20 Sue and I get this Instagram direct message from this artist named coos. CO us just like couscous. And she texts me and she's like, Hey, no, my name is Cassie and I go by coos, this is my artist profile. I just got offered an opening giggle bedrocks, and I'm looking for our female bass player. That was her message more or less. And I remember reading that and just, I'm getting Pickens keen, you know, it's just like, because I didn't even know this person, you know, immediately just went in and like, looked at their music and their profile, and I was just like, cool. Yeah, like, why not? Right. And I was fine. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, Yeah, awesome. Sounds great. And she asked me if I played upright bass. I barely played upright bass at the time. You know, I took a couple of lessons with Drew morale at school. But I actually never spent too much time on the app, right, to be honest. And she's asked me that, and I was like, Yes, I do. You know, why say no. Yeah, the opportunity right there. And

Chris Webb

so after we say that, it's like, what makes you nervous? You just get your cat to say yes, anyway, like, you're gonna be okay. Right? Like, take the opportunity. It's been given, right.

Zoe Nassimoff

And she texted me, she was like, sweetie, that's, that's cool. If you want to play electric, that's totally fine, too. And, you know, after a couple days, she texted me back. And she was like, Hey, I signed the contract with red rocks, we're good to go. And I hired this drummer called forest, Rob, which forest is also a seed them or alumni and forest, and I had the chance to play together. So rhythm shed section on different instances. So just been, you know, just hearing that he was there. It was also exciting. And we started rehearsing in July, for the show that happened in October, gussied set, set it up, like different live shows before Red Rocks, just to get like a feel for the band. And just so that the audience could feel it out, because she used to play as a solo musician. So we kind of worked on assemblies of like, I think, nine songs throughout those months, and we play different shows, till red rocks. And then, you know, last two months before the gig, it was just weekly rehearsal, sometimes, twice a week, nine in the morning, we pulled a morning rehearsal, we would run five songs over and over, and over and over again. It was the three of us, it was our first time playing Red Rocks going back to the app, right? When we got to those two months. And before the gig, I actually started bringing the app right to rehearsals, I was playing electric before, but before all those months, I was just reading at home, the songs, write the songs, getting the intonation, right, and till the day came. And that was just unbelievable. Unbelievable.

Chris Webb

Yeah, the moment you walk out there, hmm, tell me about that moment.

Zoe Nassimoff

You know, I cried, not gonna lie to you. It was so emotional, right? Because, you know, from the moment we got there, we loaded in at 4pm. And just seeing the stage and tea and seeing all all the technicians and the stage hands just working, and, you know, meeting the other bands. That was incredible, too. But then, you know, the moment where I saw the stage before I walked in, you know, it was just incredible. Because it was so loud show, it was a beautiful night, just you know, you can see the stars, it was not cloudy. And yeah, solo show at Red Rocks, and just people yelling or screaming. And, you know, I side remember seeing it from the right side of the stage. And Cassie goes, she played two songs before we came in. So, you know, we had the experience of just waiting there filling it all. And I remember telling, telling my friends from that night, I had a moment where I like, close my eyes. And I felt like my career just kinda like, you know, pass through like a movie, right? Just like the main moments. And that's when I got really emotional, because, you know, I was able to recall and remember all these important milestones in my career since I was really little and and picked on the ITAR throughout, like, all these years, just been been there. You know, it was one of those moments where you're like, wow, like, you know, progress and the process is cool, but like when you see the results, it's just insane, right? Yeah. It's all happening. But then also just being able to appreciate everything that took you there to

Chris Webb

start an amazing, amazing moment for you. And I mean, I just lived it right now. Are you telling me like, it's just so wonderful, and it is the accumulation of all of that effort? All of these years? All the dreams right following your heart? It's just all there. Yeah. Do you have you played with her since?

Zoe Nassimoff

Yeah, yeah, we played a lot together. She's actually worked don't occur. New SDP right now with forest drummers have producer. But yeah, we've been playing a couple of gigs. We got some festivals this year. So that's exciting. And I'm actually playing Red Rocks again in July. Hey, thanks to her. Yeah, she introduced me and Forrest to another singer songwriter.

Chris Webb

Well, congratulations on that. It is absolutely wonderful to watch, you continue to succeed. And it all comes from how hard I see you work. And you know, every time I walked by you, you're always busy every time at school, I mean, every time I ever got to work with you, I've always been impressed with your work ethic and your etiquette and just you as a human, I just, I believe that you're going to reach every goal that you put out there for yourself, appreciated. The last thing I want to ask, as you know, a lot of listeners are probably in the same kind of boat where they're just in the early years of their career, any books or for you, maybe any people that you follow even social media that you have found really useful. In your in your process in your education,

Zoe Nassimoff

I would say big toward them and the music lesson. As a musician, I feel like that's all you need to read the book I actually really, kinda every month or every two months, but I read it for the first time back in 2020, I think and yeah, that just changed the way I approach to music. So I would definitely recommend that one. And then online presence. I see a lot of Ron Carter actually the bass player. You know, he's, he's in his 80s Now, but he's actually really good at Instagram. And he's super inspiring, because he's always he does, like live videos practicing. And they he like response questions. So that's inspiring. And so I would say, like we were born into, he's an he's an African bass player, who's also just his philosophy about music really touches me too. So those are the main ones. But I do read a lot about like philosophy in general. So I would say just finding something that you can hold on to, you know, one that like, motivates you and just keeps you keeps you moving forward. That's that's important.

Chris Webb

That's great. Love it. Yeah, I hope that we keep in contact.

Zoe Nassimoff

But I definitely do have great memories of working with and TJ for sure.

Chris Webb

Yeah, you were such a huge part of getting this whole thing started. So we appreciate everything that you've done for us. And thank you for all that you've done for us. So thank you very much for coming on and spending some time with me. Thank you.

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Action:

1. Make a short list of ideas for your own endorsement deal.  Use Zoe’s approach by listing a few of the brands you already use and love.  Find ones that can fit your story in a unique way and do your research on how to approach them.

Ways to connect with us:

Zoë Moff : https://www.zoemoff.com/about

Email is at: Musicians Tip Jar@gmail.com

**If you find this information useful or just want to make us feel good, please rate and subscribe to this podcast. the finance side of your music business.**

As always, thanks for joining us, and remember, there is already enough for everyone, you just need to know how to get it.  Until next time, on behalf of Dave Tamkin and myself, Chris Webb. Stay happy, healthy, and wealthy. One day your life will flash before your eyes too, so make sure it’s what you want to see.

This is Musicians Tip Jar

*Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, business, or financial professional for individualized advice. Individual results are not guaranteed, and all discussed strategies have the potential for profit and loss. Those are operating on behalf of musicians Tip Jar LLC exclusively.